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 -Digital Medium Phobia?-

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jkn
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:21 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

I liked the thoughts of the author... is it as simple as 'youth drives the market' - that might be a little too simple, but then again, there is a good amount of truth to it.

Music, like all things... change. Period. End of story. Smile

At the moment mp3's are where it's at... it's been coming for a long time now - and it's finally hit critical mass. I'm probably not the only one here that remembers the heyday of mp3.com and discovering artists and friends there... Anyway... CD's are in decline and will continue to go... DVD's are also beginning to decline (replaced briefly by Blu-ray, but I think that's only a temporary step before files over the internet take them over).

I think Altus mentioned the general idea of don't forget who's reading this... we're all music lovers... to the point of actually visiting a forum discussing music. Especially this particular form of music... we're a very small minority of the general population. There's nothing wrong with this of course! (Otherwise, why would I drop by from time to time?) But we're far from the majority of the music buying public.

wow - I'm rambling.

Yes - it saddened me when the vinyl record stores gradually expanded that tiny little cd section into 80% (then 100% of the store) - which had a bonus effect of making used record stores a little more enjoyable for a few years for at least my benefit.

Yes - it saddened me when all of my favorite record stores disappeared one by one years later.

I think the internet is the coolest thing - I've met musicians I would have never ever met before - have formed many great friendships - discovered music that would have never made it to central Illlinois.

I really should go back and edit this - but I'm out of time...

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megatone
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:01 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

I just wish to add that a process of decommercialization of music may bring a fallout to the so called "major" pop labels and turn off bandit rappers from music, and so encourage a rise of artists with a different motivation than just earning money from a gimmick without even caring about music. Although there would still remain the issue of social power thru media control. A separation between business and music as art would function in the case when the artists could earn their living from a simple dayjob, but music creation needs far more energy and effort than an ordinary work.
In any case, maybe things will somehow solve. After all, within the last century there was an ascention of music creativity greater than in all history of mankind, and that's something positive.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:06 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

I just read on the biggest NL newspaper that buying CDs for the public is not interesting any more.
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Mac of BIOnighT
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:56 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

I don't know. Maybe I'm just tired of seeing music being used as wallpaper, constantly playing wherever you go to the point making you feel like vomiting and begging for some silence.
Maybe I'm just sick of seeing teenagers with stupid plugs stuffed in their ears damaging their hearing and constantly playing just because it's better than a silence they're afraid of and a communication they're incapable of.
Maybe I'm tired of seeing music used as an old whore by people who have no love for it.
Maybe I'd like to see it in the hands of people who really love it, the same kind of people who used to put an effort into at least walking down to the shop on the corner and browse thru the records.

Sure, the percentage of people who really love music was and always will be the same, but at least once the others couldn't humiliate it like they do now...
God bless the times when music wasn't so easy to possess.

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BillBinkelman
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:13 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« Mac of BIOnighT » wrote:
I don't know. Maybe I'm just tired of seeing music being used as wallpaper, constantly playing wherever you go to the point making you feel like vomiting and begging for some silence.
Maybe I'm just sick of seeing teenagers with stupid plugs stuffed in their ears damaging their hearing and constantly playing just because it's better than a silence they're afraid of and a communication they're incapable of.
Maybe I'm tired of seeing music used as an old whore by people who have no love for it.
Maybe I'd like to see it in the hands of people who really love it, the same kind of people who used to put an effort into at least walking down to the shop on the corner and browse thru the records.

Sure, the percentage of people who really love music was and always will be the same, but at least once the others couldn't humiliate it like they do now...
God bless the times when music wasn't so easy to possess.


Very poignantly expressed. Can't say I don't sometimes despair as much...maybe not all the times, but still... Sad

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GlennFolkvord
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 2:30 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

Inspired by this thread I opened another, which is a little OT to this thread but still relevant; http://www.emportal.info/viewtopic.php?p=22206#22206 - marketing and sales techniques for independent creators.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:06 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

[quote:ac65a9a3dc="Ren
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Vietgrove
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 6:03 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

I wouldn't rate the long-term survival chances of any music presented on "non-physical" formats, myself. Maybe it doesn't matter, maybe it does, but I'd put money on the vast majority of music made recently and in the medium-term future not existing in any form once a few decades have passed. Hard disc files, and DC-rom burns are certainly something that coule be called a "volatile storage medium" both dependent on the media itself surviving, and the means to reading that media being available long-term as well. Two striking examples of what happens when you present your art on a volatile storage medium:

http://www.stanford.edu/~gdegroat/PF/filmography.htm

http://www.polanegri.com/polafilms_paramount.htm

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Mac of BIOnighT
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 7:55 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

Good (and scary) examples...
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GlennFolkvord
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:49 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

There are those that suggest that culture, and especially music, can only survive in the long term if it can be copied digitally, because copying ensures unlimited instances of the same song(s) and conversion to new formats.

How many physical formats of the past are still being distributed and played by the man in the street? They are quickly going away. Wax cylinders, anyone? 8 track cassettes in 100 years? I think even DCC tapes are extinct now, and they were hot only 10 or 15 years ago.

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Craig Shipley
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 3:45 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« GlennFolkvord » wrote:
... I think even DCC tapes are extinct now, and they were hot only 10 or 15 years ago.


Just curious, were DCC ever hot technology? I don't think that they were all that hot here in the USA, since I think that they came on the scene right about the time that CD-Rs were starting to enter the market. Were these popular in Europe?

(My first job as a field engineer fixing computers in 1977 had me repairing intelligent remote entry terminals that used digital cassettes as the storage media. They had two drives, one to 'boot' the terminal and the other for data. Had a 'test' Wink tape that would print pictures on the thermal paper; had some pretty good nude women (for the technology, that is...) A few years later, we came out with a similar device that used bubble memory (remember that technology? Smile ) which was highly unreliable but it was fast!!! Ahhh, technology...)

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GlennFolkvord
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 4:02 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« Craig Shipley » wrote:

Just curious, were DCC ever hot technology? I don't think that they were all that hot here in the USA, since I think that they came on the scene right about the time that CD-Rs were starting to enter the market. Were these popular in Europe?


Not really. "Hot" was the wrong word, I dont think they ever took off :-)

But they were better than analogue cassette tapes, and the players were compatible with old analogue cassette tapes, IIRC.

This still means that anything released only as DCC may now be lost, since widespread copying is not feasible (I dont know anyone with a DCC player, even MiniDiscs are not as popular as they were planned to be).

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Craig Shipley
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 5:37 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

That's what I was thinking; I initially wanted a DCC at the time, but I saw the writing on the wall for tape technology even then and decided to stick with my high-end TEAC z6000 (RIP) until I jumped into CD-Rs. Heck, at home we are now using 8 & 16 GB thumb drives to move media about, so even CD/DVD technology is looking very, very vulnerable; I personally have not burned a CD for audio use since getting my iPod two years ago. I'm seeing new car stereos that only have either USB or SD slots, no CDs. With thumb drives and memory cards getting larger and cheaper (the 16GB cost US$60.00) why mess with "fragile" CD/DVD media?

Speaking of MD, oddly enough my 2004 Toyota van's stereo has the capability of supporting a remote MD changer (found this out when I was interfacing my iPod thru the changer port).

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:48 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« GlennFolkvord » wrote:
But they were better than analogue cassette tapes,


Yowch!

Try telling that to a Nakamichi owner. Wink

DCC went head-to-head with MiniDisk. They both used compression and both sounded dire.

DCC crashed and burned because:

1 - Unlike MD, they were linear recording media (eg, you couldn't delete track 2 of 7 and add a new one, you had to do it the old fashioned way).

2 - Lots of mechanical parts = unreliable.

3 - Tapes stretch - even ones. MDs don't

4 - Although the players were retro-compatible with compact cassettes they were pretty poor sounding even compared to a budget player like a Yamaha KX480.

5 - Little continued software support - Sony got burned with Betamax and didn't let it happen this time 'round. You could get a lot of Sony / CBS / EMI / Virgin / Chrysalis releases on MD but stuff all on DCC.


A lot of DCCs like DATs ended up being sold as studio gear IIRC at massively discounted prices.

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GlennFolkvord
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:44 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

I never owned or used DCC so I cant speak of their faults or advantages, but I assume they were an improvement over the old cassette tapes. But I do see why they tanked.

The only place I hear about people using MD today is when musicians do field recordings or live recordings of small concerts, like a budget DAT or replacement for field HDD recordings.

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