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von haulshoven
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:10 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

real EM?

when a robot sings the blues

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:52 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« von haulshoven » wrote:
real EM?

when a robot sings the blues



http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4pimCdIwMPw

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:48 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

Great article! Well written and very honest.

However, there are still many of us making very good electronic music to this day. Yes the record label budgets and advertising has vaporized but the integrity and passion is alive.

You see Artermi never brings up the last 20 years of electronic music here in America. You see EM is NOT a European only genre of music. We in the United States have produced plenty of very good electronic music that still deserves a greater recognition beyond our shores. Its very evident in articles such as Artemi's there exsist this passive agressive negligence to bring forth the creative efforts of American Em artists.

Here's a list of a few great EM artists from the US: Steve Roach, Robert Rich, Micheal Stearns, Patrick O'Hearn, John Serrie, Kevin Braheny, Thom Brennan etc.Im almost certain everyone reading this will agree with me that they have contributed to the entire scene and not one specific section of it.

All of these fine musicians make electronic music not necessarily in the carbon copy "berlin-school" or krawftwerk vein but in a style of electronica they have made very deep, personal and accessible. All or many of the artists continue to contribute fine music to the EM scene to this day.

In the future lets not pigeonhole EM to only a European based history as there is plenty of EM history still happening on both sides of the planet and it is NOT dead......yet!

My $.02 worth.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:20 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

Thanks everyone for your comments.

Of course I do like what's happening on the current EM scene (I mean new and some older artists), including the US. I am optimistic, as is pointed out in the article. Smile

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Last edited by Artemi on Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:22 am; edited 1 time in total

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:39 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

Well done Artemi for your excellent article i think some of the other 10 Klaus refered to must have been people like keith Emerson and Rick wakeman who certanly explored different areas of EM and probably the live performance of synths.
I have greatly enjoyed reading all 3 of the opinion articles so far and admire those with the guts to stick there necks out and express themselves so well.
one of the best things about these articles is they have promoted new debate and congratulations to Soundwave your post on Artemi's article is one of the best i have ever had the pleasure to read.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:10 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

I personally do like these written views on EM by people. Well done all 3.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:49 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

A nicely written and well thought out column by Artemi. However, I believe there is a plethora of pioneers out there, and they are stretching the envelope at this very moment. The chances are you won't hear them unless you really put a tremendous effort in to find them.

I'm not sure what EM is. Sometimes I think it depends on where you are from. I would like to think that EM embraces not only Berlin-ie music but ambient Rich and Roach-ish genres as well. I like to think of EM as electronic music which is meant to be listened to and not danced to.

One reason that the new pioneers are hard to find is that there are no record companies investing in these kind of artists. It takes time and money to produce, distribute, and market an artist. The few labels out now that specialize in this kind of music are so small and are usually home-based. Many of the owners of these labels are also interested in getting their own releases out to the public and just don't have the resources to push other artists. The big labels like Sony and their sub labels are putting their efforts into commerical music. Their main objective is to make money. Until EM is proven to be a profitable product, the monied labels won't bother.

Money. It's all about the money. Gone are the days where there were labels like Impulse, a label that took a chance in producing and developing artists. Impulse believed that the artist's efforts would generate enough interest to make the label profitable.

Back in the sixties and seventies record labels sought out performers who had a different marketable sound. Electronic music was fairly new, and the audiences were unaccustomed to the new sounds. I'm certain growing interest in psychedelic drugs and experiences also aided to promote the new EM sound.

Sometimes I wonder if there are too many good artists that are giving their music away for free on the internet. I've done it in hopes of promoting our act. One of our performances is offered in a stream. I now think that practice devalues the genre in the general public's eye.

I was interested in the Madonna comment. I'm not a huge fan of hers, but I do admire her abilities to keep evolving. One the chief ways in which artists like Madonna keep evolving is that they are not afraid to seek out new, upcoming, and innovative producers. I doubt that happens in EM. The results are often the same old same-old. A good producer can inspire.

How many on this forum actually purchase CDs from obscure, independant artists that you have never met? I'm surpised how few fellow artists invest in others' music. To keep this genre alive and growing people need to purchase music from new artists and/or artists that keep exploring and pushing. Quit lamenting about the good old days, and invest in the new artists. They're out there.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:50 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« Russell Storey » wrote:
and congratulations to Soundwave your post on Artemi's article is one of the best i have ever had the pleasure to read.


I thankya! Wink

I know there was a big hoo-haa on the old EM forum about what EM is but I think the genre or most importantly this method of creating music is much more widespread however I'd prefer to call (if I may be so bold) this traditional type of EM 'Synthesizer Music' as the methods of electronic sounds are done from the traditional synthesizer keyboard not some wizz kid editing nano blips and glitches on a laptop. It like saying car racing was just car racing when cars first came about but saying that now and its more like what type of car racing e.g. Rally, F1, GT ect.

I think in the 90's surrounding the DJ vinyl market it was much 'cooler' to have music that was hard to get with little publicity other than "you gotta here this tune".
It's kinda why Aphex Twin remains an aloof personality which adds to the attraction even though he's ironically one of the most talented and successful modern electronic artist's around. This 'hard to get' publicity just makes fans want the music even more and is bollocks at the end of the day when it finally gets a proper release a year or so later on the shelves of HMV.

Hopefully I think the mass choice of legal independent music on the internet will someday outway the commercial big label's in such a way that it will almost become uncool to like anything popular but there are a lot of passive fools out there who will be fed any old crap on the pretense of what they are buying is good or more importantly acceptable to the next sheep.
I also don't think the general public are even aware of (ahem) synth or EM music even though there's a large market out there for people who want to 'listen' to this type of sound. An good example of this is the soundtrack to the film Solaris by cliff Martinez which, now deleted is fetching silly money especially in the states only because it's caught the ear of people who are unaware of this type of music and don't realize that there's been a whole range of artist doing this kind of music for many years.
Don't get me wrong Solaris a very good soundtrack album but compared to artists like Steve Roach, Namlook, Rich ect it kinda falls in its place so to speak.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:49 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« MarkM » wrote:
I was interested in the Madonna comment. I'm not a huge fan of hers, but I do admire her abilities to keep evolving. One the chief ways in which artists like Madonna keep evolving is that they are not afraid to seek out new, upcoming, and innovative producers. I doubt that happens in EM. The results are often the same old same-old. A good producer can inspire.


But therein lies the problem. Madge has jumped from one genre to another. Any progression from what may or may not be considered as "Real EM" (and as many others have said) will end up with the EM cogniscenti jumping up and down and complaining that it's not "real EM".

This is, of course, bollocks. TD, the band we all love to hate, because they don't make "real EM", are making some great records at the moment (The 5 Atomic Seasons looks set to be a cracking set of disks). I would suggest that whether their artistic integrity is intact or not (and that is also a matter of opinion) they sell a lot of CDs because their music makes a lot of people happy and happy enough to want to own the music. And they sell more than say Syn or (burn me for being a heretic) RMI or FSP or whoever you'd care to hold up as the standard bearer for "Real EM" which would suggest their music means more to more people and must be just as valid etc.......

To use Madonna as way of example, if you looked at say her album "Music", it's dance music as was her first album. But if the same principles were applied to her as they seem do to EM, people would denounce it as not being dance music because it is a million miles away from the "4 to the floor" played on 80s digital keyboards.

Basically. Stop navel gazing. Accept that music made electronically or with electronic elements is now going to cover a wide variety of styles. Evolution means going places we don't all like, Vangelis has gone somewhere else, as has Carlos, Edgar, Tomita et al.

Get over it, it's not 1974 any more and Moogs are not the only way to make electronic music.


Nice thought provoking article by the way Artemi. Got any more on the way?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:27 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« Soundwave » wrote:
An good example of this is the soundtrack to the film Solaris by cliff Martinez which, now deleted is fetching silly money especially in the states only because it's caught the ear of people who are unaware of this type of music and don't realize that there's been a whole range of artist doing this kind of music for many years.
Don't get me wrong Solaris a very good soundtrack album but compared to artists like Steve Roach, Namlook, Rich ect it kinda falls in its place so to speak.


I think Solaris is better than most of what those artists have put out for a long time and find it a very original album (just to offset your point ;-0 )

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:35 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

Good article Artemi.

I like Soundwaves response too, lots of comments about lots of things that contribute to the discussion.

The only person in music that seemed to keep their ears open and not get locked into his own viewpoint was John Peel (a comment on my limited knowledge more than anything else perhaps!) - If he'd been a musician would he have kept creating different stuff? very few of us seem to have the ability or resources to keep allowing change to change us, keeping our ears and creativity truly open. If we are unable to change as listeners, how can we judge those who make music - how do we allow change and still keep our sense of identity? what is important to us?

I felt in the mid seventies that anything was possible musically and yet, now, I recognise the limits of my own taste and wonder when my boundaries crystalised. I will listen to anything if it is played to me, but there is so much out there I have to make choices about what I will actually buy and spend time listening to.

I knew a london band in the late 70's that had a label (Flux of Pink Indians) and after one attempt to actually explore their creativity they went back to the anarcho punk format because they felt getting the message across was more important than doing it in a particular way - but it would be hard to express the shock and upset they felt when they realised how locked into narrow 'genre' stereotypes the 'alternative' fans could be - just swapping one mindset for another rather than creating something for themselves....

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:01 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« Seeker_UK » wrote:
« MarkM » wrote:
I was interested in the Madonna comment. I'm not a huge fan of hers, but I do admire her abilities to keep evolving. One the chief ways in which artists like Madonna keep evolving is that they are not afraid to seek out new, upcoming, and innovative producers. I doubt that happens in EM. The results are often the same old same-old. A good producer can inspire.


But therein lies the problem. Madge has jumped from one genre to another. Any progression from what may or may not be considered as "Real EM" (and as many others have said) will end up with the EM cogniscenti jumping up and down and complaining that it's not "real EM".

This is, of course, bollocks. TD, the band we all love to hate, because they don't make "real EM", are making some great records at the moment (The 5 Atomic Seasons looks set to be a cracking set of disks). I would suggest that whether their artistic integrity is intact or not (and that is also a matter of opinion) they sell a lot of CDs because their music makes a lot of people happy and happy enough to want to own the music. And they sell more than say Syn or (burn me for being a heretic) RMI or FSP or whoever you'd care to hold up as the standard bearer for "Real EM" which would suggest their music means more to more people and must be just as valid etc.......

To use Madonna as way of example, if you looked at say her album "Music", it's dance music as was her first album. But if the same principles were applied to her as they seem do to EM, people would denounce it as not being dance music because it is a million miles away from the "4 to the floor" played on 80s digital keyboards.

Basically. Stop navel gazing. Accept that music made electronically or with electronic elements is now going to cover a wide variety of styles. Evolution means going places we don't all like, Vangelis has gone somewhere else, as has Carlos, Edgar, Tomita et al.

Get over it, it's not 1974 any more and Moogs are not the only way to make electronic music.


Nice thought provoking article by the way Artemi. Got any more on the way?


Not yet. Maybe in the future...

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:23 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« Seeker_UK » wrote:

Get over it, it's not 1974 any more and Moogs are not the only way to make electronic music.


Exactly!

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:23 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

Thanks Artemi, for stirring up such interesting comments from people. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:13 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« Sonic Steve » wrote:
Thanks Artemi, for stirring up such interesting comments from people. Very Happy


Smile Smile

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