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 -The intrinsic value of music-

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Mac of BIOnighT
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:13 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

Oh, Aaron: interesting Smile
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M@kz Delissen
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:17 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

Thanks for all your reactions! There are some very interesting insights in them.

The funny thing about a column is that it is not a forum entry. It may look like it, but there are some subtle differences. The biggest being, that a column is definite. After the last period (.) it's over. That's it, thank you for reading, goodbye... In this case, there is a possibility to react directly to the column. Personally, I like that. It is surprising to see how much emotion a piece of writing can evoke.

A column is a nice place to (hyper)ventilate a personal opinion or a feeling. And since personal opinions and feelings are, by definition, only a personal truth, there will always be people that disagree with what you write. And that's good, because that indicates that we are still all different.

A column should at least stir up some reactions, because, ideally, it should make people think about their personal truths. There are many ways to achieve that. Because it was the first column, I chose a subject that is rather close to the roots of this community. And no big shockers, just situations that most people can, in a way, relate to.

A column can also be harsh, rude, provocative and controversial. I kept it rather quiet for my first effort, but I can't promise to be as meek and mellow in a next column Twisted Evil

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ambientlive
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:57 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

I've been a hi-fi nut since 1964, and after a long search for a way of
making CD's sound 'normal' I have come up with ...

Use a 70's amplifier, I'm using an Armstrong 626 which has that 'British' sound.
I also have a Rogers and a Leak, but the Armstrong is wondersul.
Alternatively I use a Marantz 1030 which is an old-style 'console' amp,
but I keep coming back to the Armstrong.

Use old speakers, I'm using Mordaunt-Short's I think from the very early 80's.
Spendor would be good also (not the current models).

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xxx440Hz
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 11:31 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

I think that the objective is to try to come back to the sound of the record as the artist intended to do it. A good system should not "alter" the sound, keep as pure and neutral as possible, without a color which could change all record's sound. In one word : be faithful to the artist's (the musician, the mixer, the people doing the mastering, etc...). The record is "warm", "rich in frequencies,....", well the result should be like this on the system.

And as the 70ies records were done on analog tapes, and done for vinyl, this means that the current media (CD, mp3, etc..) may give different results upon the way it was transformed from analog to digital. Therefore I agree in a certain extent that listening to a vinyl record could be more fai!thful (on a good system) than on a CD player.

I have also the feeling that the CD players (the good ones) sound better today than 10 yers ago.

440Hz

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 11:34 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« Mac of BIOnighT » wrote:
Well, there's actually another thing I do not like at all about MP3's: what about the album as a concept? What about a group of songs that constitutes a single work? How many albums do you have or make that are built exactly like a book, where every song is like a chapter of the whole story and can't be separated from the other without losing meaning? I have A LOT. With MP3's it's - for the vast majority of users - like having one chapter of a novel, meaningless, senseless, incapable of giving what it is supposed to give because it is but a fragment of the whole...
And I'm not only referring to concept albums, but also to those so very inspired works where the sequence of tracks itself is as much a source of emotions as the tracks themselves...
Discovery by Oldfield, Kosmonauta by Syrian, Galaxy by Rockets, Oxygene by Jarre and so many more! Kids who download stuff all the time would only get one or two tracks from albums like/similar to these, they would never know the whole story, just a couple of incomprehensible chapters...
I've always thought of an album as a trip: you enter it, move thru it, you get out of it, hopefully enriched by it. This "quantity" fixation, this non-stop flow of music can only be a backdrop for other activities, it could never be the trip that a GOOD album is and should be...


Evil or Very Mad

Excellent thought, Mac! I agree with you completely. MP3 is arguably killing the very idea of a concept album. Or maybe even any album at all, because most young people in my experience do not care about an album, they just download tracks they like. The result is heeps of "albums" by popular artists with one or two heavily promoted "singles" and tons of crappy "filler". I'm afraid this will only get worse with the passage of time. I just hope that some non-commercial genres are not so much affected by this trend.

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FSP Marcel
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:25 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

Interesting column and I agree with most of the things, not all though.
It could be that these youngsters wanted to have a good way of listening to their favorite music while on the bus and still have one hell of a music system back at home.
I can't think of a better way/sound then a high bitrate MP3 music for travelling.
I consider myself quite a sound/music purist myself having a nice setup at home but I personally don't mind the MP3 quality when I drive to work (and not having to switch CDs constantly).
Sadly the true story of most of these youngsters (I'm 34 so I guess I'm stuck in the middle of young and old) don't care about the quality or that some artists put a lot of work in it and that it should be heared on a decent system.
I loved the LP for it's coversize but never for its clicks and pops, terrible. I always recorded it immediately when I bought one so that I could hear it with the least possible clicks/pops (and I had a Thorens too).
But there was something about those concept albums with those side long tracks.

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Mac of BIOnighT
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:22 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

Thanks, Artemi Smile Yes, I'm afraid that for commercial music "albums" have already almost stopped existing, and like you I hope that will not happen with less commercial music....
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:56 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

I grew up listening to LP's and the only thing I miss is the Big format... which allowed for fantastic cover art ... you ever bought those 3 Lp albums? (E.L.P. , YES, ETC) having them was a big event... now you can have all that in a little box...

But I certainly do not miss the scratch!!!

CONGRATULATIONS on the new "Portal" !!!!
.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:36 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« xxx440Hz » wrote:
I think that the objective is to try to come back to the sound of the record as the artist intended to do it. A good system should not "alter" the sound, keep as pure and neutral as possible, without a color which could change all record's sound. . . . . . .


Indeed, as per the old Quad ads "a piece of wire with gain"

However, since the source material had suffered a considerable indignity (being digitized) we do what we can to re-inject 'warmth' since today's amps can be a tad, erm, clinical in their delivery.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:39 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

Nice to hear one thoughts on any subject, especially music. Hope you don't mind if I interject. As far as todays music, or what the youth are into. I don't think its changed much from when I was a youth. Todays youth, listening to what singers of today interpit todays times. We were ridiculed the same way,as todays youth are ridiculed, for the way we left the world. Of course we aren't to blame. Wink
Sounds quality wise, it sure beats AM and Mono. Very Happy

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:17 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« modulator_esp » wrote:
I think that the intrinsic value of music transcends packaging and delivery formats, and that these are just things you've got used to and are comfortable with. If you'd never had them you would never have missed them.


My thoughts exactly.

Also, all formats have issues but none are as important as the terrible mastering due to everyone wanting their CD louder than everyone else's.
Or the fact that everyone has garageband or an equivalent and suddenly thinks they have something to say musically. Kind of like anyone with photoshop is a graphic artist.
I think these are issues which have more of an impact on todays music than how it is delivered.
My biggest personal issue is the disconnection between artist and listener with an MP3. I used to scour the liner notes for all the details, the gear lists, who engineered, where it was recorded and marvel at some of the covers. This element no longer exists I get the feeling.

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modulator_esp
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:11 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« dlmorley » wrote:
« modulator_esp » wrote:
I think that the intrinsic value of music transcends packaging and delivery formats, and that these are just things you've got used to and are comfortable with. If you'd never had them you would never have missed them.


My thoughts exactly.

Also, all formats have issues but none are as important as the terrible mastering due to everyone wanting their CD louder than everyone else's.
Or the fact that everyone has garageband or an equivalent and suddenly thinks they have something to say musically. Kind of like anyone with photoshop is a graphic artist.
I think these are issues which have more of an impact on todays music than how it is delivered.
My biggest personal issue is the disconnection between artist and listener with an MP3. I used to scour the liner notes for all the details, the gear lists, who engineered, where it was recorded and marvel at some of the covers. This element no longer exists I get the feeling.


I like covers and all the other details, but don't really need them physically

What we need is a digital format that with all this stuff embedded

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:41 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
="dlmorley"

My thoughts exactly.


Or the fact that everyone has garageband or an equivalent and suddenly thinks they have something to say musically. Kind of like anyone with photoshop is a graphic artist.
I think these are issues which have more of an impact on todays music than how it is delivered.


I think this has always been the case since the invention of "Rock & Roll" For years there have been bands who were crap (I was in a lot of them Very Happy ). When I was a teen in the late sixties and early seventies we formed bands and made reel to reel tapes that we would "force" friends to listen to.

Its just a lot easier now to get publicity with the web and places like myspace. Anyone can make a album in their bedroom and release it to the world. I personally think this is a good thing as however crap an artist/band is, they have the right to have a go.


Everyone who is famous now started out unknown.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:52 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« pjtmusic » wrote:


Its just a lot easier now to get publicity with the web and places like myspace. Anyone can make a album in their bedroom and release it to the world. I personally think this is a good thing as however crap an artist/band is, they have the right to have a go.

Everyone who is famous now started out unknown.


Exactly

and it's not like anyone forces you to listen to it, but it's there if you want to

at least nowadays you get the chance to hear more obscure stuff before you risk wasting money on it Smile

and there's lots of good, legal stuff available at no financial risk Wink

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:05 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

I agree totally that everyone should have the right to release whatever they want, BUT it does have a big impact on music and peoples perception of music and especially how people judge music.
The impact I see or hear is a LOT of very similar sounding artists with very similar sounds and grooves. The difference being that they are actually IDENTICAL grooves and IDENTICAL sounds. Before you had no option but to invent and create. Now you can combine elements (in general supplied loops or presets or even themes) and make music. It's a small but critical difference.
It's the classic Ringo scenario. I'm sure there are drummers better than Ringo starr, but you hear one beat of his rhythm and you know it's him. The songs would be totally different with a different drummer. Maybe better, maybe worse, but certainly different.
Same with great composition. Or great sound creation.
These days there is too much non descript but perfectly "decent" sounding music around.

all in my totally biased opion of course
Razz

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