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 RIP Carlos Guirao

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phaedra2008
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:46 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« dronescape » wrote:
I don´t believe it, they are seated at an API console... how on earth did they manage to make "Visitor" and "Digital Dream" sound *that* anemic?!
This is the desk to go for (at least for me...).
Stephen


It must have been early days, Digital Dream they took to Klaus Schulze to mix down, KS obliged to do it for free but did not make it a priority.
After a month they were keen to release it pressuring KS who did it.
Neuronium did not like it and mixed it themselves.

As Neuronium became MH the direction went New Age and somehow the lower end of the audio spectrum got ignored, very little happening under 100Hz and as much as I like the music from a critique angle the music sounds "thin" to me.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:29 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

Very sad day. RIP Carlos.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:23 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

RIP

I admit not having heard of him, but of course I know Neuronium.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:41 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« Jon » wrote:
RIP

I admit not having heard of him, but of course I know Neuronium.


His first solo album, Revelation (1982), is highly rated by Spanish fans of electronic music and I recommend it if you like Neuronium.

Best regards

Pablo/Audionaut

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:44 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

The two first Neuronium albums were released on the spanish EMI label. This label, despite good sellings of the albums, did not want to release more of their music, so they had to pay of their own the studio sessions for their third album, "Digital Dream". They were looking for a label for releasing it, when en, KS offered himself to mix the album after listening to the master tapes. One month later, Michel Huygen and Carlos Guirao listened to the KS final mix and were very disappointed with it. Some instruments had disappeared, other were added without their permission, and things like those. They wanted the master tape back from KS but he had simply "kidnapped" it, even menacing them with no release at all.

Finally they got it back. According to Michel Huygen words, at that time this was the usual KS attitude to new artists.

I have heard/read this story several times in radio/press interviews, coming not only from Huygen but also from Guirao; the latter makes me think it's probably true.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:15 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« Alvaro » wrote:
[...]
Finally they got it back. According to Michel Huygen words, at that time this was the usual KS attitude to new artists.
[...]


Fits in with my personal experience with KS and KDM. Very professional attitude, indeed.

Fans get treated in a very similar fashion.

Stephen

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:21 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

This may be the wrong thread for digressing into history, but these comments do belong here now before this thread fades into the mists of time...

It's clear some just don't want to go past the KDM experience/view they have, and some of my info comes from KDM and some from Huygen from the mid 80's.
However, certain things make more logical sense than others, just to keep a balance Wink

Neuronium were virtually unknown outside Spain, the man who put them on the map with Digital Dream was Andy G through his Lotus mail order, then Archie Patterson from Eurock, the year was 1982.
These guys had a hard time getting stock from Neuronium who were simply not geared fro distribution, very slow responding and then the Spanish pressings were rubbish full of clicks and pops despite the several represses, but the demand was there, we all liked Digital Dream.

As for the KS Digital Dream mix, KDM was contacted by Neuronium for KS to do the mix, they never heard of Neuronium before or their music.

The tape was personally delivered by Guirao, Huygen and Thomas Gilsanz, the cover art painter.
KS said he'll do it, and for free without any other commitment.

They kept ringing KDM who passed the messages to KS who got onto it but somewhat reluctantly trying the find the mood and time.

Here are some facts:
1975-KS was approached by Far East Family Band for a similar project, he recorded, produced and mixed Parallel World, for free.

1979-Busy times for KS
It was the Death of an analogue with VCO's, VCF. ADSR's, etc. replaced by bits, bytes, words, addresses...
-Produces a young unknown musician, Wolfgang Bock's Cycles and finds him a label for it.
-Produces French Skyline for Earthstar, another unknown EM band
-Sets up his own IC label dedicated to provide exposure to new artists and EM

1982-KS visits Australia, sets up ICDU (IC Down Under) for local acts and explores options to set up an EM Academy in Sydney.

1983-He's out of IC and sets up Inteam, again for odd unknown projects

All of these point to long time dedication helping new acts and don't match the profile for someone sequestrating someone elses' work.

KS collaborated with many musicians over the years, he was not some big shot, can do all Producer.
Those who came to him sought a record to sound like a KS, the evidence is in all recordings he was involved with.

We'll never know what Neuronium asked or expected, maybe they hoped for a surprise and an opportunity to have KS's name in the credits.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:37 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

"KS is a very friendly guy who´d never turn anybody down. That´s why he promises a lot to many people who expect to benefit from his reputation and who hope to grow big in his wake. These people are of course pissed off when KS turns his back on them, focussing on other projects." (roughly translated from Michael Schwinn´s 1986 book "KS -- Eine musikalische Gratwanderung").

That much, that true.

"Don´t bother KS with your shit, he won´t listen to it, and he will throw it away anyway, and if he doesn´t, I will do that for him." (KDM)

Stephen

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:02 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

Laughing makes sense.
For years there was speculation for a release of that "original" KS mix and There were plenty of opportunities as Neuronium were not shy with reissues.
I guess it was KS turn to say no or maybe it was really bad.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:29 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« dronescape » wrote:
"KS is a very friendly guy who´d never turn anybody down. That´s why he promises a lot (...) These people are of course pissed off when KS turns his back on them, focussing on other projects." (...)


Well, I think this is not a situation that's special for KS. I mean, in no way I'm something like a "famous" musician, but even I had this experience for many times: other musicians approach me for a collaboration, more often than not we like each other, the idea seems good at that moment, there's some enthusiasm. Then, on both sides (...but I have to confess: more often on my side than on the other's) all kinds of non-musical things get in the way, the project is delayed, sometimes it just dissolves, on other times both sides promise each other do to something soon, but it does not happen for month and years. Time is always short, it's impossible to dance on every wedding. Then, at least for me, it's always much easier to work on own material, because in that case You're just responsible for Yourself - in a collabortation, I don't want to mess it up, I don't want to disappoint, therefore often waiting for a good moment to really concentrate on it...and sometimes, that golden moment of inspiration just never arrives...

Right now I return from a very nice session with a musical friend - we were talking for more than a year about a possible collaboration, and today for the first time we actually sat down and played (...nice result though, 70 minutes of quite enjoyable music).

From this I think it's not necessary anything like bad will or egoism or ignorance if a planned collaboration doesn't work. there are a lot of other things that might interfere, and I guess most musicians can agree to this from their own experience...

« dronescape » wrote:
"Don´t bother KS with your shit, he won´t listen to it, and he will throw it away anyway, and if he doesn´t, I will do that for him." (KDM)


He wrote such things since the 90ies, back in the late 70ies/early 80ies though it might have been different...

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:34 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

He didn´t write this, he told me so.

That was in 2007, not in 1987 or 1997, mind you.

Stephen

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:58 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« phaedra2008 » wrote:
It must have been early days, Digital Dream they took to Klaus Schulze to mix down, KS obliged to do it for free but did not make it a priority.
After a month they were keen to release it pressuring KS who did it.
Neuronium did not like it and mixed it themselves


Please forgive me for being so repetitive, but KS was never obligued to make the mix, he personally asked Neuronium for doing it.

(Always according to Huygen and Guirao's words)

Maybe it wasn't KS fault but KDM's fault, I don't know. I have never spoken to any of them, only to Huygen. If KS told you so, well, I believe you. I only know Huygen's side of the story, I presume you have much more information than me Wink

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:27 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« dronescape » wrote:
He didn´t write this, he told me so.


I already guessed that; in addition, KDM hardly ever misses to mention something like this as a kind of "advance warning" to possible musicians who might have the idea to send anything to KS or him (..usually his choice of words is more polite - but only slightly...)

Wink

« dronescape » wrote:
That was in 2007, not in 1987 or 1997, mind you.


Yes, yes - I just was speculating that at some point in the past (earlier than 1985, perhaps...), the KS camp might have been a bit more open towards those who they later called "copycats". I don't know, though...maybe it's been just like that from the start.

Which reminds me of something I was wondering about:
I found two (...or maybe three) mentions of You (...as "ramp") in the older KS circles I'm reading at the moment. One is of the sort I had expected, something like "...I don't know ramp personally and I don't want to know him...", but the older one is at least not negative:
He mentiones (almost recommends) a couple of musicians who had releases on Manikin Records - and one of them were You!

Which of Your albums was released on Manikin? Just curious...
My guess would be "Traces of the Past"...then again, this is no ['ramp] album. Hm...

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:52 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« Alvaro » wrote:

Please forgive me for being so repetitive, but KS was never obligued to make the mix, he personally asked Neuronium for doing it.

(Always according to Huygen and Guirao's words)

Maybe it wasn't KS fault but KDM's fault, I don't know. I have never spoken to any of them, only to Huygen. If KS told you so, well, I believe you. I only know Huygen's side of the story, I presume you have much more information than me Wink


Laughing this is audio archeology and sometime we bridge gaps with the best information we have and make up our own minds.

My info came from some KDM letters from mid 80's, so it was fresh then.
With MH I corresponded more about his music and the Vangelis collaboration, I also heard from others he did not like to discuss the KS mix.

I never heard a different recollection of accounts till you mentioned it here.

But for what it's worth Very Happy , this new story sounds a bit like:
KS or KDM find out about an unknown new group in Spain and contacts them asking to mix their next album.
The group travels to Germany dropping off the tapes, but then KS loses interest taking his time but eventually creating a mix without putting his heart in it.
And finally, KS feels like not returning the tapes at all...

And if we extrapolate from this story, then Vangelis may have also asked Neuronium to come to Nemo studio for some EM jamming sessions, then also bring along the Musical Express TV crew for some filming.

Nice to share knowledge and views though nothing will change, the music is what matters and Digital Dream is considered the best Neuronium album of all time, a bit like Ricochet for TD. Laughing

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:53 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

Which reminds me of something I was wondering about:
I found two (...or maybe three) mentions of You (...as "ramp") in the older KS circles I'm reading at the moment. One is of the sort I had expected, something like "...I don't know ramp personally and I don't want to know him...",


There´s plenty of people around who would tell you I was a twat. And some of them would even be right.

but the older one is at least not negative:
He mentiones (almost recommends) a couple of musicians who had releases on Manikin Records - and one of them were You!


Is that so? I´m amazed... that must have been long before I refused to back down in front of him.

Which of Your albums was released on Manikin? Just curious...
My guess would be "Traces of the Past"...then again, this is no ['ramp] album. Hm...


"nodular" was the only ['ramp] album to be released on Manikin, back in 1998 (due to be remastered some day or other). It´s been out of print for many years, though...

Stephen

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