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phaedra2008
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Joined: 09 Aug 2009
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Location: Western Oz
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 Posted:
Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:16 pm Tangerine Dream-Tangerine Trees Sound quality grading |
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The relative interest in the TT issues has stirred up my interest in these, I got them years ago then initially listened to a handful and that was it.
I must say that this was a great experience, almost rediscovering TD as the concerts fill the gaps between the albums in much greater detail.
My appreciation goes to the guys who spent an enormous amount of time to gather the best tapes, clean them up then to top it off, create some great artwork.
These historical recording became the "source" for bootlegs then found their way back to the origin: TD, for the Bootleg series and more recently Esoteric Records as bonus tracks/discs for the TD reissues.
The 92 TT releases span around 150 CDr's stacked on 3 spindles without any chronological cataloging, one never knew what vintage tape may turn up...
I started with the first stack up to TT 32.
The grading scale of 1-5 is based on spot checks over a two days period, it is possible that short glitches and gaps may exist but woulld not affect the ambiance of the concerts.
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phaedra2008
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Joined: 09 Aug 2009
Posts: 2723
Location: Western Oz
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Posted:
Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:21 pm Tangerine Tree 1-32 part 1 |
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1-Nottingham 1976-2nd generation (audience?) tape-3
2-Sheffield 1974, low generation (audience?) tape-3
3-Bernau 2001, 2CD Inferno premiere, audience MiniDisc-4
4-Washington 1977, 2CD FM broadcast tape-3
5-Alte Oper, Fassbinder Memorial 1983, audience tape-3
6-Bilbao 1976, 1st generation tape-6 (muffled/bassy sound)
7-Croydon 1975, 1st generation audience tape-3
8-Berlin 1976, 1st generation tape-2
9-London 1975, 2CD, Digital copy of BBC mono master tape (same sound both channels)-4
10-Newcastle 1982, 2CD, audience tape-4
11-Hamburg 1978, audience tape-7 (bassy, distortion)
12-Croydon 1982 2CD, audience master tape-3
13-Mannheim/Saarbrucken 1976 2CD, audience original tape-3
14-Paris 1981 2CD, audience master tape-3
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phaedra2008
One of the Coolest Member
Joined: 09 Aug 2009
Posts: 2723
Location: Western Oz
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Posted:
Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:25 pm Tangerine Tree 1-32 part 2 |
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15-Warsaw 2001 Part 1, Soundboard recording-4
16-Warsaw 2001 part 2 2CD, Soundboard recording-3
17-East Berlin 1980 2CD, 1st gen. copy of reel-2-reel studio master recording-5
18-Montreal 1977 2CD, 2nd gen. fan FM tape recording-3
19-Paris 1976 2CD, audience master tape-3
20-Warsaw 1997, FM broadcast tape recording-4
21-Detroit 1992 2CD, audience DAT master-4
22-Orange 1975, audience tape-1 (bassy, fair distortion, crackles)
23-Berlin 1973, FM Broadcast tape-3, this one was bootlegged as a CDr, same sound just different back cover: http://www.discogs.com/Tangerine-Dream-Berlin-1973/release/2367123
24-Irvine Meadows 1986 2CD, audience tape-3
25-Detroit 1977 2CD, audience tape-2
26-Brussels 1980 2CD, audience master tape-3
27-Brussels 1976 2CD, audience tape-2 (very heavy noise reduction applied, some atrefacts during simple passages)
28-Firenze 1981, audience master tape-2
29-London 1990 2VD, audience master tape-2
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Imagination is more important than knowledge
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phaedra2008
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Joined: 09 Aug 2009
Posts: 2723
Location: Western Oz
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Posted:
Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:26 pm Tangerine Tree 1-32 part 3 |
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Artemi
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Age: 33
Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 2233
Location: Saint-Petersburg, Russia
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Posted:
Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:38 pm (No subject) |
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Ok, so the best ones get 5 points?
Thanks for this enormous work!!
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phaedra2008
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Joined: 09 Aug 2009
Posts: 2723
Location: Western Oz
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Posted:
Sun Aug 21, 2011 3:43 pm (No subject) |
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Yes 5 will do, there is little point using 1-10 when everything is likely to be 6-10.
A 1 should have been a leaf, 5 commercial CD quality recording, so that leaves us with 2-3-4.
You're are welcome, and I'll get through the rest in 2 similar installments, my stacks go to 87, I don't have the last 5 released after I got my set.
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Graham
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Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 536
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Posted:
Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:35 pm (No subject) |
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FWIW my opinion...
Rating 5:
TT9 London '75
TT17(2nd version) East Berlin '80
Rating 4:
TT37(2nd version) Sydney '82
TT14 Paris '81
TT1 (2nd version) Nottingham '76
TT87 Budapest '82
TT38 Berlin '87
The rest are much of a muchness. TT10 (2nd version) Newcastle '81 is nice but I always preferred Paris Bataclan, both for sound quality and the performance. And if you want the best version of Thermal Inversion etc sound-quality wise it has to be the Sydney '82 recording which is probs a 4.5 on this scale.
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phaedra2008
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Joined: 09 Aug 2009
Posts: 2723
Location: Western Oz
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Posted:
Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:19 pm (No subject) |
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I'll see when I get through the rest.
It's difficult to rate many of these as a 5 as most came from cassettes, and if any deserve a 5, what would be the rating for a top notch commercial CD release.
I do have the Sydney concert on a reel to reel, just can't find a studio here with a decent machine to play it yet, don't feel like spending $1000 or more a on a Revox or something just for a few tapes.
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Imagination is more important than knowledge
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Graham
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Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 536
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Posted:
Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:29 pm (No subject) |
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« phaedra2008 » wrote:
I'll see when I get through the rest.
It's difficult to rate many of these as a 5 as most came from cassettes, and if any deserve a 5, what would be the rating for a top notch commercial CD release.
Yes.
TT9 came straight off the BBC (mono) master reel-to-reel. Though is probs a 1st or 2nd gen copy of the CDR spawned from that.
TT17 (2nd version) is a 1st gen copy of the CDR(?) send from the radio station who broadcast it i believe.
And both these blow away the likes of the official Soundmill Navigator CD in terms of sound quality. 
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Artemi
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Age: 33
Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 2233
Location: Saint-Petersburg, Russia
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Posted:
Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:10 pm (No subject) |
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Interesting. Thanks.
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BruecknerAmbient
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Age: 43
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Location: Mainz
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Posted:
Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:14 pm (No subject) |
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Interesting. I've just started to check the TT from my own (humble) perspective this evening, and just meant to report my personal impression of the first 13 Volumes - although I can't add more information from the 'historic /genealogic' side of things, maybe my view helps to complete the picture:
My general impression:
I found all these 13 Volumes an interesting and enriching listening, ranging from just good fun to completely awe inspiring...
As for the sound (and performance) qualitiy, this vary from what seems to me like good sounboard/radio recordings (the majority) to good and sometimes weaker audience recordings (from my side just a guess...). None of them can match "Encore" (Artemis suggested measure...) as they all have slight imbalances in sound, especially in the lower frequency range - the bass and lower mids often seemed muddy, while the higher registers often are clear (without being too streanous...). All in all, for bootlegs, this seems to be a high standard, for a proper 'official release' there lacks the final little bit of quality (in the best cases...).
I guess for any Tangerine Dream fan who listens to that stuff for the first time, it must be a feast, if he doesn't insist on high fidelity, that is...
Especially since some of the concerts (I mean the performance, the music as such...) top even the best official releases I am aware of. Really cool!
If I had bootlegs of Schulze or Deep Purple/Rainbow (from which I used to collect bootlegs long ago...) I'd count myself a happy collector indeed!
I'll add a list of my personal 'rating' of each of those 13 albums tomorrow (now - time to catch the last bus home for me...).
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phaedra2008
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Joined: 09 Aug 2009
Posts: 2723
Location: Western Oz
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Posted:
Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:50 am (No subject) |
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they all have slight imbalances in sound
That is very true, I suggested I may use Encore/Logos as references for their era's but listening to these trees it was not practical.
It made more sense grading them relative to each other, find the best/worst and then in between.
These recordings went through a long journey before ending up on those CDr, and, were never meant to exist after the events let alone consider them worthy for commercial release quality, that's why I am so annoyed with the TD and ER using these recording commercially.
Back to sound, the grading represent the overall sound which is most important, yes there are issues with them once you put on a decent set of headphones, the mid range may be too low/high, or highs too...high, mainly EQ related.
The Tree guys did a brilliant job in gathering them and preserving the best way they could so we can still hear them today.
I really enjoyed going through them so far, when I came across TT11, Hamburg 1978 I could not resist listening to that whole Cyclone concert although the quality is pretty average.
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Imagination is more important than knowledge
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Artemi
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Age: 33
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Posts: 2233
Location: Saint-Petersburg, Russia
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Posted:
Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:10 am (No subject) |
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The reason for my initial question was that I actually have numbers 1-8 and I find them hard to listen to (because of sound quality), although the music on some of these is terrific. Guess I just have too much of a sensitive ears. 
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phaedra2008
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Posts: 2723
Location: Western Oz
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Posted:
Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:42 am (No subject) |
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They are historical archive material, that's why I didn't see the point using a commercial CD as reference as only 1 or 2 would make it, I am more of the "all or nothing" type when it comes to audio and why I got so annoyed seeing these masqueraded as "remastered" commercial releases.
How would you rate the first 8 TT's then?
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Imagination is more important than knowledge
Albert Einstein
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Artemi
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Age: 33
Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 2233
Location: Saint-Petersburg, Russia
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Posted:
Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:42 am (No subject) |
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« phaedra2008 » wrote:
They are historical archive material, that's why I didn't see the point using a commercial CD as reference as only 1 or 2 would make it, I am more of the "all or nothing" type when it comes to audio and why I got so annoyed seeing these masqueraded as "remastered" commercial releases.
How would you rate the first 8 TT's then?
I would certainly rate them as "bad".  I don't have much of an experience with bootlegs, and I suppose that they are acceptable by those standards.
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