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Phrozenlight
One of the Coolest Member
Age: 55
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 1781
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 Posted:
Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:51 am (No subject) |
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bewoest
One of the Coolest Member
Joined: 09 Apr 2007
Posts: 524
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Posted:
Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:01 am (No subject) |
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« Phrozenlight » wrote:
when I am honest artwork is not important for me, never was,
only to recognize the sort of music:
old gothic fonts - metal
artistic painting - prog
space - EM
simple paperfonts - punk
Sorry, but O M G !
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BruecknerAmbient
One of the Coolest Member
Age: 43
Joined: 11 May 2011
Posts: 2057
Location: Mainz
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Posted:
Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:11 am (No subject) |
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« bewoest » wrote:
Well, granted. However the point is that there is so much of this kind of artwork around that it isn't a big deal to get hold of such imagery. I assume that in most cases the musicians won't do the illustrations, photos or renderings for the artwork by themselfs anyway.
Yes, that's like it is, and a lot of cover art work (or many other print products of commercial purposes) are cobbled together in a similar way.
Of course, space imagery is easy to find; still, the same is true for any other kind of images, isn't it? So, it's kinda up to the mind of the designer which one to pick, and what to do with it...
Well, and I know that wasn't Your original point, but still I think that the fact that there are so many images within our reach, does that reduce in any way the work and care any of those countless artists have (or has not...) invested in a given image? So don't they deserve a bit of respect, at least?
I mean, I could just as easily find one of Your tracks in the internet and incorporate it in one of my own - I wonder how amused You would be if I told You: "What do You want, there are millions of mp3s of electronic music around, so what...?"
When I was younger ("so much younger than toda-ha-hay..."), as a teen actually, I was a big fan of science fiction illustrators like Chris Foss, Jim Burns, H.R. Giger and many others. In those days, those images still were done manually, often with airbrush. I aspired to become an illustrator in that vein myself, saving money for an expensive airbrush when I was 14. I spent many (many!) hours on achieving similar results with ink and a kind of micro-pointilistic technique. I still have troubles with my fingers today from overdoing it back then... Later, I studied with an emphasis on illustration, my diploma work was an illustrated book (and an album including covers...) on H.P. Lovecraft, including an essay on the history of phantastic illustration.
Maybe that's why I think that those illustrators deserve some credits after all..
« bewoest » wrote:
Here you are, just help yourself (I am afraid I already deleted the source file, it wasn't hi-res anyway... )
Just make sure that the music you will put under this artwork also has to fit to the basic concept...
Thank You 
I'm about to finish a little thingy with rather cheesy space music and at the moment I favour the album title "'R' is for Rocket and 'S' is for Space" - so I guess it would suite the cover quite well - although, after my sermon in favour of the poor illustrators, I'll perhaps better look for the one who did this picture first. A pity it wasn't You... 
By the way, these days I also freqeuntly borrow imagery from internet sources; but I either ask for permission or make shure that the final result has nothing (much) do to with the source (= some 'artistic transformation' has happened, like in a collage...) or - in ideal cases - both...
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bewoest
One of the Coolest Member
Joined: 09 Apr 2007
Posts: 524
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Posted:
Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:25 am (No subject) |
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Quote:
I mean, I could just as easily find one of Your tracks in the internet and incorporate it in one of my own - I wonder how amused You would be if I told You: "What do You want, there are millions of mp3s of electronic music around, so what...?"
I am aware what you're talking about. But that's indeed not the point, or as they say, it is just "off-topic".
It was my intention to to bring up a discussion about a weird predictability that seems to be already very common in this particular case of creating artwork for Electronic Music of "our kind".
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BruecknerAmbient
One of the Coolest Member
Age: 43
Joined: 11 May 2011
Posts: 2057
Location: Mainz
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Posted:
Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:04 pm (No subject) |
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[quote="bewoest"]
Quote:
I am aware what you're talking about. But that's indeed not the point, or as they say, it is just "off-topic".
Ja, ja, is' ja gut... 
When I have a conversation with good friends, in a very natural way we start with some topic, explore it, and in the course of the conversation branch out to other aspects that offer themselves from what anyone said, sometimes taking side roads for a while and later returning to the original topic, or ending up somewhere completely else.
To me (and most persons i know...), this kind of conversation is (usually) satisfying, entertaining and intellectually stimulating.
Just a pity it doesn't seem to be welcome in internet forums. But I guess that's just how the 'culture of thought exchange' evolves with the years...
I'll try to adopt myself to that.
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bewoest
One of the Coolest Member
Joined: 09 Apr 2007
Posts: 524
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Posted:
Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:55 pm (No subject) |
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« BruecknerAmbient » wrote:
Just a pity it doesn't seem to be welcome in internet forums. But I guess that's just how the 'culture of thought exchange' evolves with the years...
I'll try to adopt myself to that.
In such a context it just wouldn't make sense to just chat around. Think of all those threads where people really ask for a certain advise ("Hey, my computer just crashed for some odd reason. What can I do?").
It is actually the same here, although it does not seem to be so straight.
Again, I know that it is an issue that there is hardly appreciation for the value of creativity. But I found it also very interesting that artwork already seems to become so uniformed. I just reckon that this is a sign for a deeper meaning behind that phenomenon.
In my opinion it was worth mention it, since this topic hasn't been discussed in depth before, unlike to the issue that creativity can be stolen so easily nowadays.
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Phrozenlight
One of the Coolest Member
Age: 55
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 1781
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Posted:
Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:23 pm (No subject) |
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BruecknerAmbient
One of the Coolest Member
Age: 43
Joined: 11 May 2011
Posts: 2057
Location: Mainz
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Posted:
Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:41 pm (No subject) |
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[quote="bewoest"]
« BruecknerAmbient » wrote:
Think of all those threads where people really ask for a certain advise (...) It is actually the same here, although it does not seem to be so straight.
Is it? Hm. OK - and for peace's sake - I believe You
« bewoest » wrote:
Again, I know that it is an issue that there is hardly appreciation for the value of creativity.
Yes. I know You know that...
« bewoest » wrote:
But I found it also very interesting that artwork already seems to become so uniformed. I just reckon that this is a sign for a deeper meaning behind that phenomenon.
Yes! It IS interesting! By the way: What do You think the deeper meaning might be?
« bewoest » wrote:
In my opinion it was worth mention it, since this topic hasn't been discussed in depth before, unlike to the issue that creativity can be stolen so easily nowadays.
I completely agree! Your little 'test' is IMHO witty, ingenious and amusing. And shows en passant that You're good designer.
I'm not shure though if the phenmenon as such really is that new. I think You could easily find some sort of 'generic conformity' in commercial design from 1900 on, if not even much earlier...
But however, maybe it was a misunderstanding that I had anything against Your point. I just added my own (which in turn was triggered by Yours...).
"...and still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest."
from: Simon + Garfunkel, The Boxer, 1969 -
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M I C H A E L B R Ü C K N E R
http://michaelbrueckner.bandcamp.com
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bewoest
One of the Coolest Member
Joined: 09 Apr 2007
Posts: 524
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Posted:
Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:37 pm (No subject) |
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It was supposed to be understood as "Oh my god", since I was really a bit staggerd by your straight assigning system:
« Phrozenlight » wrote:
old gothic fonts - metal
artistic painting - prog
space - EM
simple paperfonts - punk
So, do I assume correctly that even a good EM record won't has a chance to be noticed if the wrong font is used? Does that also mean that new ideas and concepts are just not wanted?
How does that fit to that following statement?
« Phrozenlight » wrote:
good artwork is a way to light up in the darkness, so that people grab your stuff instead that of someone with worser artwork.
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Phrozenlight
One of the Coolest Member
Age: 55
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 1781
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Posted:
Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:59 pm (No subject) |
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I tried to say: artwork does not work for me.
mostly people grab stuff that they see as fitting for a genre.
that is why genres use special font, pictures etc.
or recordcompanies try to sell terrible music with "good" art.
for me artwork has no importance, for me it is the music.
would I have bought albums of schulze because the artwork? no way, most artwork of his albums is terrible, it was the music that grabbed me.
for TD, Ashra, Led Zeppelin, Genesis, Black Sabbath and others it was the same.
for me the best album cover all time is the white album of the beatles, terrible music but the cover was great....
This was the point I wanted to make:
Sarcastic mood:
good artwork is a way to light up in the darkness, so that people grab your stuff instead that of someone with worser artwork.
it has nothing to do with the music.
good music can do it without artwork.
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Artemi
One of the Coolest Member
Age: 33
Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 2234
Location: Saint-Petersburg, Russia
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Posted:
Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:32 pm (No subject) |
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I think saying that a lot of Schulze, TD, Ashra, Genesis, Black Sabbath artwork sucked is a bit of... ahem.... exaggeration. There were stinkers for sure but not to that extent.
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Long live EM!
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bewoest
One of the Coolest Member
Joined: 09 Apr 2007
Posts: 524
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Posted:
Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:41 pm (No subject) |
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« Artemi » wrote:
I think saying that a lot of Schulze, TD, Ashra, Genesis, Black Sabbath artwork sucked is a bit of... ahem.... exaggeration. There were stinkers for sure but not to that extent.
Artwork is matter of taste and it always will be, that's for sure. I also wouldn't say that the artwork back then was just better than today. The main difference between then and today is that we just have lots and lots more of releases and therefore there is of course inevitably much more artwork coming along with that.
Nevertheless for me even the worst design always becomes a part of an release. I even noticed that I sometimes "understand" the necessity of a, let's say, unintelligible design for a music I really dig, because the mystery of the music has to be kept, at least for a while. Or to say it this way: the listener has to solve that secret first on his very own in order to get a deeper understanding of the whole idea - particularily if its about the abstract kind of ambient and electronic music.
Quote:
for me the best album cover all time is the white album of the beatles, terrible music but the cover was great....
...that's exactly what I was just talking about - Certainly the sheer power of the straight idea to just leave everything away, as far as it is possible anyway, made that this album so remarkable - even the music was considered to be so terrible eventually (which I do not agree on, btw.) 
My very personal recommendation for creating artwork just would be like that: Please to not take the audicence for fools! Think twice if it might work to try to force the listener to think of certain images just by showing them right away on the front cover... At least for me it does not work at all...
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bewoest
One of the Coolest Member
Joined: 09 Apr 2007
Posts: 524
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Posted:
Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:40 pm (No subject) |
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« Artemi » wrote:
I think saying that a lot of Schulze, TD, Ashra, Genesis, Black Sabbath artwork sucked is a bit of... ahem.... exaggeration. .
Sorry, but I really can't resist doing that now:
Show of Exaggeration
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Pertou
One of the Coolest Member
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 1459
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Posted:
Tue May 07, 2013 1:08 pm (No subject) |
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BruecknerAmbient
One of the Coolest Member
Age: 43
Joined: 11 May 2011
Posts: 2057
Location: Mainz
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Posted:
Tue May 07, 2013 2:35 pm (No subject) |
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