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Questions and Answers - Copyright infringement or not?

REWO Records - Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:32 pm
Post subject: Copyright infringement or not?
Recently I got a message from a Guy who was the website Reddit where the following has been discussed. It is about an old video from 2013 where I demonstrate some sounds for the Roland V-synth:

https://youtu.be/udAtD-EhH10?t=1m28s

Now the London based artist, Burial, has made the track "Nightmarket".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMR7ZA9NHG4

That is nice, but it is clear to me that he sampled a rif from that video without asked permission and/or referring to the original content.

Starting a lawsuit is not the case and not interesting either. Being proud and honorable that he used my music either. What do you think?
Syn - Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:32 pm
Post subject:
Were the sounds from the V-Synth your own programmed ones or the original onboard preset sounds ?

Sampling is still an ongoing issue tbh, despite supposedly more stringent copyright issues in place. Lots of artists out there sample others without permission. However if you were a popular massive selling artist and someone sampled a track you made, then your record label/publishing company would be the one issuing the lawsuit or cease and desist order.

As for Burial he is quite a popular artist. Maybe best contact his record label first and give them the links to your video and the track in question. you can contact the label here info@hyperdub.net

If it were me, i'd let i go and just be proud someone sampled your work, but if you have not been credited then no one knows where the sample came from in the first place and you are none the wiser.
REWO Records - Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:59 pm
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I did some editing on this sound. But anyway I played and recorded it myself so I do have some rights on it.

I agree on the sampling part.

I sent Burial via his Bandcamp page last week a message. No return on that. A few days later I contacted Hyperdub Records. No answer as well.

I can't be proud on someone (whoever that is) which steal from other people. It is not the way people should treat one other. Burial may be a big guy, however he needs to steal from other people's work to have a statue like this. The least thing he could do is sending me a message with a simple request. Such a pity he chooses this way.
dronescape - Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:00 pm
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"As long as people keep sampling me, there must be something worth sampling." (Boris Blank / Yello)

Whether or not this is ethically "okay" seems debatable.

Stephen
Syn - Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:14 pm
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Sampling was big business in the early 90's, although bands like The KLF (aka The JAMs) were at it far earlier in 1987.

However after the big 90's sampling free for all, sample clearance was a required practice or face being fined heavily, or pay an upfront fee, or pay royalties at a large percentage and include original author writing credits.

Hip Hop and Rap artists still sample without permission, but lawsuits etc are common practice, however record labels/publishers are not going to go after the small artists who sell very little or next to nothing sales wise. They only tend to go after those selling in excess of 50'000 copies or in the millions figures. That way royalties from the sample/copyright/publishing rights can be recovered.
REWO Records - Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:18 pm
Post subject:
« dronescape » wrote:
"As long as people keep sampling me, there must be something worth sampling." (Boris Blank / Yello)

Whether or not this is ethically "okay" seems debatable.

Stephen


Sounds fun when someone like him says something like that. He has way more tools to handle this than I have.

Anyway I am not okay because this does not represent the music I normally make.
REWO Records - Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:02 pm
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In the mean time I got reply from Hyperdub Records. I will hope this will be sorted out soon and everybody is happy afterwards.
VCO1 - Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:22 pm
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Which part of the 17 minutes of your video do you think he sampled? Just asking because I want to listen and judge for myself, but don't want to listen to the full 17 minutes of the demo.
GrahamH - Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:41 am
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« VCO1 » wrote:
Which part of the 17 minutes of your video do you think he sampled? Just asking because I want to listen and judge for myself, but don't want to listen to the full 17 minutes of the demo.


Not being a musician myself I'm certainly no expert, but I did notice the similarity right from the beginning on both pieces.

Try clicking at about 1:30 on Rene's track and 0:20 on Burial's track....
REWO Records - Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:40 am
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« VCO1 » wrote:
Which part of the 17 minutes of your video do you think he sampled? Just asking because I want to listen and judge for myself, but don't want to listen to the full 17 minutes of the demo.


I gave you the link where it started. Find out for yourself in this case.
REWO Records - Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:41 am
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Anyway it seems now that a solution on this matter is nearby. That's most important. Win-win for both parties is what I want.
VCO1 - Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:38 pm
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I listened to he 2 clips side-by-side several times and while there are some similarities, it's definitely not a sample. Burial is using the same patch, or something very similar. But if it's a preset that shouldn't be a surprise. The arpeggios are somewhat alike, but not the same. To be honest, playing something like this is in part because of the patch. I've tested many synths in the past, and a patch is sometimes 'dictating' the riff you play.

I would really be surprised if Burial (no clue who he is b.t.w.) took his inspiration from your demo. But stranger things have happened.
REWO Records - Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:37 am
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« VCO1 » wrote:
I listened to he 2 clips side-by-side several times and while there are some similarities, it's definitely not a sample. Burial is using the same patch, or something very similar. But if it's a preset that shouldn't be a surprise. The arpeggios are somewhat alike, but not the same. To be honest, playing something like this is in part because of the patch. I've tested many synths in the past, and a patch is sometimes 'dictating' the riff you play.

I would really be surprised if Burial (no clue who he is b.t.w.) took his inspiration from your demo. But stranger things have happened.


Well, you are wrong! They admitted and cleared it administratively. So this dispute has ended thank God.
REWO Records - Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:42 am
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I am happy that this is sorted out by the publishing company. Normally this is not the route I would normally take to find out the truth, but had in this case no choice.

Thank you all for listening. Case closed.
VCO1 - Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:16 pm
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Interesting. So did you get credits or will they pay you?

No offense, and as I said I have no clue who this Burial is, but if he has to depend on these kind of Youtube snippets for his 'compositions', he's a pretty lousy musician, imo.
softroom - Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:50 pm
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As author of some of the sounds of the V-Synth version 2, I always get a kick when I hear one used. Glad you got a resolution in this case - hope it's cash and not credit though!
REWO Records - Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:30 pm
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The thing is sorted out. Whether it is cash or credits is irrelevant.
REWO Records - Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:31 pm
Post subject:
« softroom » wrote:
As author of some of the sounds of the V-Synth version 2, I always get a kick when I hear one used. Glad you got a resolution in this case - hope it's cash and not credit though!


It is a nice piece of equipment.
softroom - Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:35 pm
Post subject:
« REWO Records » wrote:
« softroom » wrote:
As author of some of the sounds of the V-Synth version 2, I always get a kick when I hear one used. Glad you got a resolution in this case - hope it's cash and not credit though!


It is a nice piece of equipment.


One of my favourites, although I have had to replace the main board once (and recently it began failing again).

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